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Thread Playstation 3

Discussão em 'Playstation' iniciada por greven, 14 de Maio de 2005. (Respostas: 1610; Visualizações: 95244)

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  1. banid0

    banid0 Power Member

    Duvidas que se vendiam as postas? De cada vez que tivesses fraco comias um grelhadinho , ai que maravilha! :D
     
  2. Kermit the frog

    Kermit the frog I quit My Job for Folding

    Nope não aceita...a ideia do disco pa mim é bastante boa...metam lá isso e não sejam chupistas :) é que é só mais valias
     
  3. blastarr

    blastarr Power Member

    Cá para mim são chaves USB.

    A PS3 tem 4 ou 6 USB 2.0, n sei bem.
    A PS2 tem 2 USB 1.1.
    Chega bem para fazer isso, não ?
    Podem é ser chaves proprietárias da Sony, com software especial para funcionar e ser reconhecida como cartão de memória pela PS2.
     
  4. Korben_Dallas

    Korben_Dallas Zwame Advisor

    Essa pic é baseada na do George Foreman grill.

    Quanto a HD duvido que a Sony inclua um visto que o preço da consola em si já deve ser bastante caro. Não sei qual é a decisão deles mas as news inclinam mais para "no HDD"

    Cartões de memória da PS1/PS2 deve ser com um simples dispositivo memory card -> USB e pronto.
    Os memory cards da PS3 sim devem ser USB mas em formato proprietário que eles fazem mt dinheirinho à custa disso.

    Eu tb já n consigo viver sem disco :D Dá muito jeito para cenas sacadas do XBox Live, para custom playlists e claro para nunca nos preocuparmos com espaço para saves.

    Com o tamanho dos cartões de memória destas consolas (na X360 começam nos 64MB) a PS3 tb já pode pelo menos incluir custom playlists, já quem em 64MB ainda cabem umas musiquitas.
     
  5. Nemesis11

    Nemesis11 Power Member

  6. I_Eat_All

    I_Eat_All Plasma Beam!
    Staff Member

    muito interessante... nunca pensei :)

    mas será uma built da própria sony? ou uma distro? com funções/aplicações dadas pela sony?

    isto pode vir a ser um bom substituto do PC doméstico nas tarefas mais elementares...

    e... folding?
     
  7. |Oc|CRASH_OVer

    |Oc|CRASH_OVer Power Member

    segundo o kutaragi a ps3 pode correr windows Mac "Tiger" etc.... basta as empresas fazerem as tais adaptações.

    o que nao é nada do outro mundo... até a PS2 tinha linux
     
  8. I_Eat_All

    I_Eat_All Plasma Beam!
    Staff Member

    sim e a xbox corre windows 98 e linux e a gamecube tb tem linux, bem como o DS (já arranca, pelo menos)

    sim mas o facto de o linux vir pré-instalado no disco, é de um valor incrivel, é plug and play, ligas o disco e adiciona automáticamente um monte de aplicações de maneira oficial, com suporte oficial e que não chega só a nós pessoas dos forums de informática, mas a todo e qualquer utilizador.

    e também é mais um passo importante na promoção e massificação do linux, bem como 1 incentivo a comprar o disco, para algo mais do que armazenar ficheiros e gravar saves.
     
  9. timber

    timber Zwame Advisor

    O Linux da PS2 também era oficial se bem que menos "disponível" que este
     
  10. I_Eat_All

    I_Eat_All Plasma Beam!
    Staff Member

    eu sei, mas o suporte não era tão "oficial" era mais algo "licenciado" ou "autorizado".

    a PS2 também "suportava" online, mas no entanto não tinhas serviço tipo "XBOX Live!", era meramente, autorizar quem quiser a fazer.

    tal como a nintendo também fez com o serviço online, nem um unico jogo da casa mãe tanto da sony como da nintendo saiu com suporte online esta geração, já na microsoft foram quase todos (se não todos).

    E como dizes não era para todos.
    Este grau de "suportar" um suporte a sério, com vantagens reais para o utilizador comum, nenhum de nós (acho eu) sentiu necessidade de correr Linux numa PS2 até agora, não haviam realmente "vantagens" isto pode mudar tudo.
     
    Última edição: 10 de Junho de 2005
  11. blastarr

    blastarr Power Member

    Bom, dada a motivação, a racionalidade e o dinheiro, até uma linguagem de programação de microondas podia ser adaptada para pc's, telemóveis, etc.... no wait, já existe, chama-se Java.

    Sim, até um MS-DOS correria numa PS3, as questões são:

    Pq ?
    Serve algum objectivo além da "carolice" ?
    Qto custa ?
    Qto tempo demora a ser portado ?
    Tem vantagens em relação a um kit de desenvolvimento completo ?
    etc
     
    Última edição: 10 de Junho de 2005
  12. Nemesis11

    Nemesis11 Power Member

    [​IMG]

    Não sei se chegou a ser vendido cá em PT.
     
  13. Ansatsu

    Ansatsu Power Member

    E o que podiamos fazer com esse linux depois de instalado?

    Uma coisa é certa, meter windows em consolas é k não, além de consumir recursos extensivamente, além de tar cheio de bugs, aidna se punham a fazer virus para eles lol
     
  14. I_Eat_All

    I_Eat_All Plasma Beam!
    Staff Member

    ok, pelos vistos enganei-me nesse ponto...

    o que é certo é que o linux pré imbutido no disco oficial na PS3 me seduz um bocado, consoante a implementação que seja feita, mas acho que tem enorme potencial, enquanto que na PS2 achava gimmick/desnecessário.

    PS: já agr alguém tem imagens de como era a GUI de linux da PS2? ainda é actualizado?

    EDIT: encontrei a resposta -> http://playstation2-linux.com/ ^^ silly me
     
    Última edição: 10 de Junho de 2005
  15. |Oc|CRASH_OVer

    |Oc|CRASH_OVer Power Member

    portanto, de raiz, podemos correr qualquer aplicativo linux sem moddar a ps3...? divx musica net photoshops Folding SETI....
    Posso dizer que o linux vem optimizado para o Cell?... mas estes aplicativos third-party que falei só iriam tirar partido do pequenito Powerpc, a nao ser que sofram optimizações por parte dos proprietarios.

    sounds good :D
     
  16. blastarr

    blastarr Power Member

  17. Xpirit

    Xpirit Banido


    Qualquer software PPC que não seja optimizado para Cell vai correr a passo de caracol mas isto não é muito importante.

    Presumo que a PS3 mesmo que venha sem disco vai poder fazer boot através da rede. Se instalarem um servidor fica resolvido o problema. Carregam num butão e puff! PS3 on Linux com disco mountado pela net. NFS, por exemplo. Qual é a vantagem disto? Serão vendidas milhões de PS3 que ficarão a apanhar pó pelo menos 12H/dia. Isto é quanto em flops?
    Por cada milhão de PS3 desligadas meio dia vão-se 100 Teraflops em precisão simples.
    Acham que um grupo como o de stanford dedicado ao folding não tentará desenvolver software optimizado para a PS3 ? Só se forem otários.
     
    Última edição: 10 de Junho de 2005
  18. Ansatsu

    Ansatsu Power Member

    The Reason Why PLAYSTATION Is In Capitals

    Goto: PS3 is, if you look at just the spec, a full-spec computer. Why did you make it so rich [in features]?

    Kutaragi: Since the beginning, we've been trying not to do a game console for children, but to do a computer for entertainment that grownups around the world can enjoy. We've been thinking about doing a computer thoroughly. Meanwhile, finally, PC has come to the dead end. So, this time, we want to do the next computer with partners such as IBM in an ensured way.

    What we are thinking about this time is to change computing itself thoroughly. We want to change the paradigm. We want to set PS3 as the benchmark of everything.

    G: Though its goal is a general computer, you took a game console as its form in the beginning.

    K: A game console... maybe. At E3, it's a game console, and its applications are games. We really want to do computer entertainment. Other companies may call theirs game consoles, but we've been calling it as computer entertainment in press releases all along. It's entertainment and computer as well. It's important.

    At this '3', for the first time we made the word PlayStation all capital "PLAYSTATION". We named it "PlayStation" at first, as workstations were our dream computers. We added the "PS" logo to it as PlayStation is a trademark and starts with P and S. But this time we use "PLAYSTATION" in capitals.

    It's because, basically, with PC and all going to the dead end, it leads to nowhere if you ask whether it's a PC or a game console. I think we've entered the era in which you ask what is the next playstation. So PLAYSTATION is "The playstation". We do it for a bit of pride too.

    Until now, it's said "let's take functions in arcade boards or workstations", or in the case of Microsoft, they said they'd use a cutting-edge PC as a game console. But it's no more. PLAYSTATION will develop as PLAYSTATION.

    Calculations by A Cell Processor Will Produce Difference

    G: So PS3 is a computer and its purpose is entertainment.

    K: Of cource, in the beginning, it's about what's interesting as a game console, and as computer entertainment.

    In PS1, making 3D or not was the biggest differentiation factor. In PlayStation 2, it was the mission to bring 3D in the complete single-standard format - complete NTSC and PAL - in full color. This time, it'll be the crucial difference from other platforms that we make it all computing. In the background of graphics, it does vast calculations, and it produces difference.

    G: It does various simulations such as physics simulations, and operations such as AI, synthesis, in its background.

    K: You can't see by just a glance if it's calculated by a Cell Processor or not even though it can show a beautiful HD video. But, if you look at it carefully, calculated things and only converted things are clearly different. You can feel it as an awesome thing when you see it, as it's calculated. You can do thing you've never seen, you can enjoy contents themselves.

    In the case of other companies, the inside is the same even though its graphics becomes HD. They hardly calculate things. Like hardly doing physics and just adding a motion by a motion capture. Even though you can't tell by just a glance, such differences can be seen quickly.

    G: Do software developers understand that point?

    K: I think developers have an undestanding of it. At E3 demo, they tried to do it in real time on the spot rather than prerendering and precalculation. At E3, many demos do various calulations in the background. Also in graphics, how it moves is all done by calculations. Things that couldn't be calculated without huge time until now, they can be done on Cell (in realtime). They'll try to create games that take advantage of it.

    Also for audio, it's natural that it doesn't have an audio chip. It's because we calculate it (with Cell). The audio is not like how many voices you have - the audio itself becomes an object.

    Between our demo and their demo, such contriving is the difference. They are different more than just the look. I think most people who attended the E3 press conference understood it. A certain famous journalist let slip a word that XBOX is 1.5 while PS is 3.5 as it was above the expectation, they are different like that.

    The Difference Between PS3 and XBOX 360 You Can't See From The Specs

    G: The messages are clearly different between XBOX 360 and PS3. XBOX 360 pushed the image that they could prepare a solid game console as a platform. PS3 emphasized the possibility of the technologies.

    K: This time, Microsoft clearly profess that they are chasing PlayStation. However, what they are chasing are not PLAYSTATION 3 but PlayStation 2. Because they don't know PS3 we are just making now. They become like that as they look at PS2. The goals are different. However, most people can't tell the difference just by looking at the specs. We got mistaken in a similar way in the time of PS1. We'd been evaluated that the both were 3D, along with 3DO. Even though we argued that PS1 calculated 3D while 3DO didn't, we were said that the both were 3D and had CD-ROM, it's terrible like that.

    This time, either, they may not be able to see the difference between PS3 and XBOX 360 if the spec sheets are shown side by side. But, at E3, many people said it was good to be able to come and see it, not by the spec. It'll be more infected and understood when it's released.

    G: By PC getting to the dead end, do you mean with PC dragged by legacies innovation is difficult and you can't go nowhere?

    K: (Current computers) can't make the most of it as a total even though individual devices have their performances. Various bottlenecks are found when you assemble them. If you can make the most of it, you ought to be do decent things if you combine 3.X Ghz Pentium 4 and boards by NVIDIA or ATI, but you can't.

    What I call total is the buses, the loads, and other factors when they work together. You can't know it unless you do games (that have a high load). We made the architecture considering all those things. For instance, each SPE works indepedently, and SRAM is attached there, also large GPR (general purpose registers) are attached too. Because of that it can do huge calculations in realtime. Such an architecture is important.

    The Age of Network Drive

    G: PLAYSTATION 3 doesn't have a local HDD even though it boasts that much spec. Why?

    K: We don't put an HDD in default. It's because it runs short no matter how much you add it. The next thing that will come is, without a doubt, a network drive. (A storage is) on a Cell server, you can access it via the network from anywhere. In your home, in your friend's home, from anywhere, you can see logically (the same network drive). Such a world.

    However, the console itself requires HDD sometimes. So this time you can put a 2.5 inch HDD in there, 80GB and 120GB. It's very short, but it's for running an OS in a single console. Even though you have a tera-byte storage somewhere with a network drive, you have to have a drive in which an OS can run when you get an authentication as a single computer.

    Put an OS To Be Seen As A Computer

    G: Is it that you run an OS to use it as a computer?

    K: What I find strange is that while we've been calling it as a computer all the time, in the same business world Nintendo affirms it's a toy, it's a toy, to the outside world. So, even though we make supercomputer-class things that require an export control, the offices regard it as a toy.

    Even PlayStation 2 is seen as a game console though we made an awesome chip such as EE and run Linux on it. I'd thought it might become a bit better as Microsoft came from the IT world. But the awkward thing is that they don't say that as they don't want to break their own business. As they are thinking that it becomes a trouble for them if Xbox runs Windows, they are insisting that XBOX is a game console. What a troublesome thing.

    This time, we position it as a supercomputer. However, as there are people who don't see it as a computer if it's not filed as a computer, we make it run an OS. Cell can run multiple OSes simultaneously. So, to run an OS as it is and to say it's a computer, it needs an HDD.

    So, I think we'll put Linux (on an HDD) from the beginning... as a bonus. To file it as a computer.

    G: For an OS to be run on Cell, Linux comes to mind.

    K: Though Linux is also a legacy, it can be a initial lead. For Cell, an OS is merely an application (laugh). The kernel runs on Cell (Cell OS hypervisor) and it takes the style in which multiple OSes as applications run on top of that (virtual machine). Linux will be put of course. If Linux can be put, Lindows or anything can be put.

    Also other PC OSs, if the vendors think they want, Windows or Tiger (Mac OS X 10.4), can be put on it. Perhaps even a different OS may emerge.

    Drive The Ecosystem By PLAYSTATION 3

    G: With an OS, people who write programs on it will appear. To make Cell succeed as a computer, an ecosystem must be run on Cell. It needs the establishment of an ecosystem where many people spontaneously write programs to impel further permeation of Cell.

    K: Just like Apple Computer was open back then, if PLAYSTATION 3 is released and becomes open, an ecosystem will be driven. When it became Macintosh, even though Apple didn't do everything, Adobe came and someone came, the ecosystem took off. PC was like that originally. But they absorbed everything (into MS Windows)... Well, it may be their aesthetic, but it's become uncomprehensible even what an OS is.

    Until now, we'd provided libraries and game makers had made things in-house, it's not possible anymore though. To do anything, you need a larger expansion. But it'll turn out like that I think. For example, what surprised us is that an iTunes-syncronization software for PSP was released quickly. If it's evaluated as interesting, various things that run on it appear.

    G: Non-game softwares that take advantage of Cell will be released in a stream.

    K: It'll be about what kind of software on what. For instance an HD video authoring software is basically the same as a non-linear authoring system in TV stations. What we want to do on PS3 is a software of that level. A non-linear authoring system is amazing, but it'll be more amazing if you bring it on Cell. You can manage to do it on a PC, but on PS3 it can be done with ease, you'll see the difference like that. Also, various applications that have been on PC, for example, a photo retouching software. Such softwares will be released rapidly. User interfaces will be interesting too. On PC, you have to wait for years from the XP UI to the next Longhorn. But, ours develop faster. For example, with an interface controlled by gestures and speech like Eye-toy, it becomes Minority Report. Of course such development will be reflected in games too.

    G: Does the Cell computer of that time retain the PS3 form factor?

    K: This form will prevail first. A keyboard can be connected, it has all of the interfaces required. You can do anything media and network. A thing as much general as this is open.

    For instance, you can use everything openly with Linux, so everything is possible (for programmers). Also for graphics, it's the same as it has Shader (with its programmability).

    Source: http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2005/0608/kaigai186.htm

    Note: All text are translated from the original Japanese interview. Mistakes are bound to happen in translations, and we are not to be held responsible for any error with the translation.
     
  19. Ansatsu

    Ansatsu Power Member

    Agora uma pergunta particular minha:

    Será que vai ser depois possivel fazer-mos uns overclocks á makina? Vai ter sistema operativo e tudo ahahaha
     
  20. |Oc|CRASH_OVer

    |Oc|CRASH_OVer Power Member

    se te derem um Mclaren F1, ainda o ias querer kitar?..... esta gente é doida :D loool
     
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