Processador Loongson Introduces MIPS64 3A2000 & 3B2000

[Dark Kaeser]

Já não ouvia falar deles há algum tempo e até pensei que já tivessem desistido, mas parece que vão voltar à carga.

Loongson Introduces MIPS64 3A2000 & 3B2000 Processors Based on GS464E Architecture

Loongson recently unveiled two new quad core processors Loongson-3A2000 & Loongson-3B2000 targeting respectively consumer electronics and server, and on the company’s new GS464E architecture using MIPS64 cores.

Both processors are 4-way superscalar processors built on a 9-stage, super-pipelined architecture with in-order execution units, two floating-point units, a memory management unit, and a crossbar interconnect. According to Imagination Technology, Chinese media reported that 3A2000 CPU was designed at high-performance consumer electronics products such as desktop computers and laptops, 64-bit embedded and DSP applications, and network routers, while 3B2000 will be used in 8 to 16 core server systems, meaning there would be 2 to 4 quad core processors in these servers.

http://www.cnx-software.com/2015/09...2000-processors-based-on-gs464e-architecture/

A informação provêm de um PDF que está neste link
http://info.scichina.com/sciF/EN/abstract/abstract517490.shtml#

com base nalguns dos dados fornecidos a Imagination Technologies publicou o seguinte no seu blog

http://blog.imgtec.com/mips-processors/loongson-mips64-processors-performance-barrier

nenhuma informação sobre o consumo.

Os chineses bem andam a tentar, agora falta ver o que vem da OpenPower.

 

[SinLord]

era a Xiaomi (que diz que vai lançar-se nos portateis) e Lenovo e outras companhias chinesas 'emergentes' fazerem os seus desktops/portateis com esses cpu's e cresciam num instante

se forem como nesse grafico, nao sao mauzinhos

 

[Miguel_Pereira]

Isto tem as mesmo instrucções que um x86? Ou seja, espre processador pode correr coisas "normais" como windows?

 

[SinLord]

http://venturebeat.com/2015/09/03/c...mips-processor-that-can-run-x86-and-arm-code/

Brookwood added, “The Loongson processors aren’t going to set any speed records, and in-order execution cores usually outperform more complex out-of-order cores on performance-per-watt metrics. All-in-all, these are not exceptional when viewed as point products.”

And he said, “Loongson includes some MIPS instruction set extensions that accelerate x86 emulation, but I don’t think they would need an x86 license to use this feature. After all, Transmeta sold chips that emulated x86 and ran standard Windows OS, but never (to the best of my knowledge) was called on this by Intel’s lawyers. Loongson claims its x86 emulation delivers 70 percent of native performance, but given that their native performance isn’t all that impressive, I doubt people will beat a path to their door to run x86-based apps that aren’t available in some natively-adapted format.”

Resumindo e descomplicando, não.

 

[Nemesis11]

Continua-me a parecer um processador virado completamente para o mercado chinês. Mesmo a distribuição linux que suporta estes processadores é em Mandarim.
É interessante como curiosidade, mas ainda não percebi bem até onde o querem levar. A escolha de Mips também é algo sui generis.

 

[Dark Kaeser]

A história da opção MIPS é esta: eles tentaram criar um CPU RISC, usando parte das instruções da MIPS, e encomendaram o fabrico à ST-M, que quando se levantaram dúvidas relativamente a patentes avançou para a aquicição de uma licença, acabando mais tarde a própria Longsoon por adquirir uma licença MIPS64.

O interesse disto é para já puramente académico, mas com um objectivo a mais longo prazo bem definido pelo Comité Central, reduzir a dependência tecnológica externa da China.

MIPS é apenas uma das várias opções exploradas, para além de ARM e OpenPOWER, (na realidade existe mais uma que terá sido "emprestadada" pelo Alpha da DEC). Todas as empresas envolvidas, têm, de uma forma ou outra, ligações a entidades ou empresas estatais chinesas.

Já fiz várias vezes referência aos chineses e já referi num tópico qualquer, creio do Zen, quer da iniciativa presidencial dos EUA relativa ao HPC e do ban imposto pelo governo americano à Intel, relativamente à exportação de Xeon e Phi, e restante know-how, para determinadas empresas/entidades chinesas, e eles já responderam:

China: two 100 Petaflop machines within a year

Information in the public domain at the ISC High Performance Conference in Frankfurt in July suggested that China is developing a 100 Petaflop machine that will use its own CPU, designed in China. The computer is expected to start operating before the middle of next year. It is being developed by the Jiangnan Institute of Computer Technology in Wuxi, near Shanghai.

It will use a next-generation, Chinese designed and manufactured, ShenWei chip. A ShenWei processor, the SW1600, currently powers the Sunway BlueLight, which is already in operation at the National Supercomputer Centre in Jinan, and which ranked 86 in the Top500 published in July.

ShenWei is a RISC and not an x86 processor, so it requires its own instruction set. Both system and application will have to be customised for it, thus making programming and use of the machine more complex.

If ShenWei processors are used in a 100 Petaflop machine within the next year, there will be an element of historical irony, for the design of the chip appears to resemble very closely that of the ‘Alpha’ RISC chip developed by the Digital Equipment Corporation (DEC) and discontinued in 2007 by HP, which had inherited the technology through merger and acquisition.

The second domestically designed chip will be the ‘China Accelerator’ that the National University of Defence Technology (NUDT) is developing for the Tianhe-2 supercomputer, as a result of the US embargo.

The interconnection topology for the Tianhe system is an optic-electronic hybrid. The NUDT had already created the interconnects, using high-radix Network Routing Chips (NRC) and high-speed Network Interface Chips (NIC), both of which were designed by Chinese engineers and are Chinese intellectual property.

Since the next-generation ShenWei will be based on its own CPU chip and the co-processors for Tianhe-2 are being developed at the NUDT, China will enter the 100 Petaflop era with its own CPU, accelerator, and interconnect technologies.

http://www.scientific-computing.com/news/news_story.php?news_id=2711

o seguinte artigo é baseado no anterior, com algumas informações adicionais

More CPUs envisaged in the Five Year Plan?

These developments are being conducted under the terms of the State High-Tech Development Plan, known as the 863 program, which is funded and administered by the Chinese Government to stimulate the development of advanced technologies in a wide range of fields for the purpose of rendering China independent of financial obligations for foreign technologies. The NUDT is also designated, as is Jiangnan University, under the 211 program, which is intended to facilitate the development of Chinese higher education.

http://insidehpc.com/2015/08/china-may-develop-two-100-petaflop-machines-within-a-year/


E informação adicional fresquinha ao upgrade do Tianhe-2

Professor Lu said that they had already upgraded the TH Express-2 interconnect network, concurrent with upgrading the nodes, so it would simply have been a matter of changing the cards when the Phi co-processors were delivered. With the embargo in place, however, “the situation has changed.”

The technologists within the National University of Defense Technology have therefore turned to a DSP chip that they developed themselves, and are adapting that to integrate it within the Tianhe as the Matrix 2000 GPDSP “China Accelerator.” The chip is 64 bit, 2.4 Teraflops (in double precision) running at 1 GHz with a power consumption of around 200W – roughly comparable to, or even a bit less than, the Intel Xeon Phi. (Although the speed of the machine is expected to nearly double, target peak power consumption will rise only from 17.8 MW to around 18 MW.)

The hardware change that has been forced upon them means that the machine’s designers also need to create new software libraries: a GPDSP operating system; a compiler; a driver; a maths library and a communications library. All sit under an OpenMP4.0 complier system.

http://insidehpc.com/2015/09/an-open-invitation-to-work-on-the-tianhe-2-supercomputer/

 

[DigitalBoy]

Isto tem as mesmo instrucções que um x86? Ou seja, espre processador pode correr coisas "normais" como windows?

Coisas "normais"? Seguindo a definição literal da palavra normal, sim, corre Android. (Antendendo ao fato que há mais androids no mundo que os outros SO's todos juntos entre telemovel, desktop e servidor)
No que toca ás coisas "anormais", corre GNU/Linux, BSD, e possivelmente uma ou outra variação de Unix por ai perdida.

Continua-me a parecer um processador virado completamente para o mercado chinês. Mesmo a distribuição linux que suporta estes processadores é em Mandarim.
É interessante como curiosidade, mas ainda não percebi bem até onde o querem levar. A escolha de Mips também é algo sui generis.

Não haverá nenhuma forma mais standard para estes processadores?
Sei que o Stallman (cabeça da FSF) usa um: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemote
É muito mais velho, mas ainda assim um loongson MIPS. Certamente que não é só suportado por distribuições em Mandarim

 

[Nemesis11]

Não haverá nenhuma forma mais standard para estes processadores?
Sei que o Stallman (cabeça da FSF) usa um: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemote
É muito mais velho, mas ainda assim um loongson MIPS. Certamente que não é só suportado por distribuições em Mandarim

Os Lemote de facto eram vendidos para fora. O sistema operativo que suporta os Loongson é este loognix
Parece-me ser só virado para o mercado chinês.

EDIT: Vi agora que dá para instalar Debian MIPS.

 

[SinLord]

Continua-me a parecer um processador virado completamente para o mercado chinês...

Parece-me ser só virado para o mercado chinês...

um mercado tão grande/maior que o Europeu e (norte) Americano juntos, e que permitiu a muitas das marcas chinesas que agora vemos na Europa cimentarem as suas bases...é dificil até para marcas estrangeiras, no caso dos smartphones, ganharem boas fatias do mercado por lá (samsung e apple) com tamanha concorrência, portanto, mesmo que se consigam lançar no mercado chinês com laptops/tablets/desktops, seguramente conseguem €€€ e quiçá reforçar-se de forma a depois virem para o ocidente concorrer com intel (com falta de concorrência) e amd (algo debilitada) ... espero que consigam, para bem do mercado/consumidores

 

[Nemesis11]

um mercado tão grande/maior que o Europeu e (norte) Americano juntos, e que permitiu a muitas das marcas chinesas que agora vemos na Europa cimentarem as suas bases...é dificil até para marcas estrangeiras, no caso dos smartphones, ganharem boas fatias do mercado por lá (samsung e apple) com tamanha concorrência, portanto, mesmo que se consigam lançar no mercado chinês com laptops/tablets/desktops, seguramente conseguem €€€ e quiçá reforçar-se de forma a depois virem para o ocidente concorrer com intel (com falta de concorrência) e amd (algo debilitada) ... espero que consigam, para bem do mercado/consumidores

Que eu tivesse visto, os processadores que eles lançaram até agora foram para portáteis, desktops e HPC.
Esquecendo o mercado HPC que convive bem com Linux, o mercado desktop e portátil na china não é muito diferente de qualquer outro mercado. Isto é, está muito dependente do Windows. Ainda é um dos maiores mercados a correr XP.
Não é este processador que vai dar a volta a este ponto. Pelo menos não espero que assim seja.

 

[SinLord]

assim sendo...é pena que não consigam correr windows em condições pelo menos

 

[Nemesis11]

assim sendo...é pena que não consigam correr windows em condições pelo menos

Eles têm instruções para melhorar a emulação de x86 e Arm. Penso eu que não será instalando programas x86 de base mas usando um produto de virtualização, tipo KVM ou Xen.
Não há muitos detalhes.
O problema de não correr Windows é o mesmo problema de quase ninguém ter licenças x86 e de não serem transmissíveis depois de uma venda de uma empresa que a tenha.
Todos vimos como correu "bem" Arm em Windows Clients, por exemplo.
Não há grande forma de escapar sem ser acabando com a dependência de Windows e isso parece-me muito complicado de se atingir. Linux reina em todo o lado menos portáteis e desktops. Alguma razão haverá para isso.

 

[Dark Kaeser]

Here's a company that wants to start an ARMs race by keeping Intel outside

That company, Loongson, shares common roots with Lenovo, the world's biggest PC manufacturer and has quietly amassed a rumoured war chest of 120 billion yuan (about $18.8bn, £12.1bn, AU$26.3bn).

A massive bounty that it may want to use to take on the global microprocessor market (CPU or processors for the rest of us) which is currently dominated by Intel and ARM. We caught up with the president of Loongson, Weiwu Hu, to discuss about the company's plans.

http://www.techradar.com/news/compu...an-arms-race-by-keeping-intel-outside-1304738

Nada de novo, ou seja, para já focados naquilo que os seus clientes querem, tentar ganhar dimensão e depois logo se vê.

 

[Dark Kaeser]

Fresquinhas... acabadas de tirar do congelador da ZWAME!

BYD made a notebook!Adopt domestic Loongson 3A4000, and domestic OS system

e com um TWIST

http://www.jingjiamicro.com/detail/102/1.html

E agora perguntam vocês: que raio é isso?

Machine configuration (standard version):

CPU: Loongson 3A4000 processor 1.5Ghz

Bridge: Loongson 7A1000

Graphics card: Jingjiawei JM7201

Memory: 8G DDR4

Hard Disk: 256G SSD

https://electrodealpro.com/byd-made-a-notebookadopt-domestic-loongson-3a4000-and-domestic-os-system/


Para quem se quiser entreter, está em ingrés

 

[Nemesis11]

According to the actual test results of the CPU performance test tool SPEC CPU2006, the fixed-point and floating-point single-core scores of the Loongson 3A4000 both exceed 20 points, and the Unixbench four-thread score based on the Loongson 3A4000 and the latest version of the domestic operating system has reached more than 2700 points.

Fui ver para comparação:

O FX-8150 no SPEC CPU2006 Int single thread, faz 22.3. Um 6700K faz 73.4.
O FX-8150 no SPEC CPU2006 fp single thread, faz 26.7. Um 6700K faz 96.6.

https://www.spec.org/cgi-bin/osgresults?conf=cint2006
https://www.spec.org/cgi-bin/osgresults?conf=cfp2006

Em Single Thread no SPEC CPU, parece andar por volta do AMD FX-8150.

No UnixBench, um Opteron 3380 (Piledriver 8 Cores @ 2.6 Ghz) faz 3884 e um Xeon E3-1230 (Sandy Bridge 4 Cores @ 3.2 Ghz) faz 7902.

https://www.servethehome.com/raspberry-pi-model-512mb-linux-test-suite-benchmarks/

Para um Processador num Portátil é OK.

 

[Dark Kaeser]

Confere, este modelo específico, é suposto ser @ 28nm FD-SOI (ST Micro), e há 3 variantes

Loongson president Hu Weiwu has stated that the 3A4000 delivers twice the performance of its predecessor, the 3A3000. Hu goes on to mention that processor's performance is comparable to that of AMD's 28nm Excavator parts, which launched in 2015.

Both 3A4000 and 3B4000 employ the GS464V microarchitecture and are built on STMicroelectronics' 28nm FD-SOI (Fully Depleted Silicon On Insulator) manufacturing process and utilize the FCBGA-1211 package. The processors are equipped with four cores, 8MB of L3 cache and operating clocks that span between 1.8 GHz to 2 GHz.

Loongson's latest pair of 28nm parts support DDR4-2400 memory, dynamic frequency and voltage regulation, which should help improve battery life in laptops. The 3A4000 draws up to 30W, 40W and 50W at 1.5 GHz, 1.8 GHz and 2 GHz, respectively.

este do portátil sendo o 1.5GHz tem 30w, a versão de topo é o 2.0GHz que tem 50w.
Há ainda a versão 3B400 que é para servidores e tem ECC.

Mas para o próximo ano a coisa fica mais interessante

Loongson has already plotted the path for next year. The chipmaker expects to introduce the quad-core 3A5000 and 16-core 3C5000 chips to the Chinese market. The new processors would be based on a more up-to-date 12nm manufacturing process and come clocked up to 2.5 GHz.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/loongson-cpus-catching-amd



Do Loongson Technologies’ Quad-Core Processors Rival AMD’s 28nm CPUs?

Loongson’s press release also explains that “The 3A4000 / 3B4000 uses Loongson’s latest-generation processor core GS464V, clocked at 1.8GHz-2.0GHz. SPEC CPU2006 fixed-point and floating-point single-core scores are more than 20 points, which is more than double the previous generation products.”

The 3B4000 server version can utilize ECC (Error-Correcting Code) memory and can utilize an 8-way configuration to increase performance 4-times over Loongson’s previous generation of processors, which are limited at 2-way deployment only.

Key Features
Both the (PDF) 3A4000 and 3B4000 are quad-core processors and feature 64Kb of L1 cache, 256Kb of L2 cache, and 8Mb of L3.

Both processors also pack:

• Two 72-bit DDR4-2400 controllers (supports EEC check)
• Two 16-bit HyperTransport 3.0 controllers with 2/4/8 way Multiprocessor Data Consistent Interconnect (CC-NUMA) support
• SPI, UART, I2C, and 16 GPIO interfaces

Processor speeds range from 1.5GHz to 2.0GHz and consume 30- to 50-watts depending on the frequencies.

On-chip Security
On the security side, both the 3A4000 and 3B4000 offer on-chip protection from the Meltdown and Spectre security vulnerabilities that plagued Intel’s CPUs early last year. The processors also feature native encryption/decryption algorithms, including MD5, AES, and SHA.

ah, e ainda...

They are outfitted with dedicated, trusted security modules, “national secret algorithms,” and support access control mechanisms such as “Shadow Attacks.” All safety control mechanisms are integrated within the processor cores to achieve intrinsic safety.

https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/ne...t-gen-quad-core-3a4000-and-3b4000-processors/

Mas eu achei piada mesmo foi à GPU Ginja.

 

[Dark Kaeser]

Perto de alcançar o obectivo...

Loongson, China, self-developed instruction set "Loong Arch" that does not conflict with any CPU patent​

LoongArch is an instruction architecture for CPU that the company independently developed in 2020, and consists of nearly 2,000 instructions. In addition to the base instruction set, it has binary conversion extension instructions (LBT), vector processing extension instructions (LSX), advanced vector processing extension instructions (LASX), and virtualization extension instructions (LVZ).

The company has traditionally adopted the MIPS instruction architecture, but LoongArch is completely original, without any MIPS instructions.

The first LoongArch-compliant processor "3A5000" has already been taped out and is operating steadily. In addition, it is said that even fairly complicated programs that operate on other instruction architectures can operate normally with the binary conversion function.

https://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/img/pcw/docs/1318/914/html/2_o.png.html


Não deixa de ser engraçado pois a Tom's uns dias antes falava em eles passarem a Risc-V, e de o 3A5000 ser ainda o último a ser baseado na "old-MIPS"

Chinese Loongson 16-Core MIPS 12nm CPU for 256-Core Servers to Launch Shortly​

The new MIPS64-compatible CPUs are aimed at client PCs as well as multiprocessor servers. Interestingly, the new chips may be the last high-end MIPS64 offerings from the Chinese Academy of Engineering.

The chips in question are the 2.50 GHz quad-core Loongson 3A5000 for client PCs and 16-core Loongon 3C5000 for servers with up to 16 processors.

One interesting thing about Loongson Technology is that the company is reportedly 'looking forward to join the open-source instruction consortium.' The consortium mentioned by Loongson's executives is almost certainly RISC-V International, which essentially means that going forward, the company will focus on RISC-V.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/loongson-3a5000-3c-5000-to-launch-in-2021

 

[Nemesis11]

A Mips (Seja lá quem sejam, actualmente) tinha anunciado há pouco tempo que Mips iria passar a ser um superset de instruções por cima de Risc-V. Essas instrações "Loong Arch" não serão essas instruções da Mips?
Parece fazer sentido no "puzzle".

Eu nesta altura, não percebo bem de quem é a Mips, pois havia um contrato vitalício para o território Chinês.

 

[Dark Kaeser]

Possivelmente a confusão venha daí.

Realmente o IP da ISA MIPS após a venda por parte da Imagination Tech à Tallwood VC, esta vendeu por sua vez à Wave Computing, que entretanto pediu insolvência e após isso alterou o seu nome para MIPS e que iria abandonar a ISA MIPS a favor da Risc-V.

Mas o que o artigo japonês diz é que a Loongson desenvolveu a sua própria ISA que não tem qualquer relação nem com a MIPS nem com outras ISA.

 

[Dark Kaeser]

Começaram a aparecer alguns benches dos 3A5000 e no Openbenchmark realmente a ISA aparece como loongarch

em relação a performance nada de notável

take for example the easy C-Ray benchmark on the 3A5000 at around 393 seconds... Compared to the composite ranking for C-Ray via OB, that puts this new Chinese CPU around the speed of an Arm-based Phytium FT-2000 or Core i3 8109U / Core 2 Quad Q9500 / Core i5 750.

Or even the Perl benchmark on Loongson 3A5000LL puts it among the slowest results we've seen. Or for the PC (non-LL/server) version, benchmarks there show a Core i5 7200U Kaby Lake CPU easily slaughtering it in the lightweight SciMark2 benchmark. Or there is this comparison in several benchmarks of the Loongson-3A5000 against the Phytium ARMv8 SoC that is also made in China.

The Loongson 3A5000 is a step forward for China in domestically made PC/server processors using their own "LoongArch" ISA but of all the public data so far on OpenBenchmarking.org I haven't seen any points putting it remotely close to modern x86_64 or ARMv8 hardware.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Loongson-3A5000-Benchmark